Long time blocks and payout numbers. What's your take.

edited January 2014 in Bitcoin

OK, I get it.  Smaller pool and depending on luck, maybe we go a while between blocks.  I actually like it, it gives you a taste of what solo mining might be like, but what I don't get is why the numbers are working out worse than other pools.  Here's what I mean.


If I took my rough hashrate and just cranked in a large pool like eligius I would be sitting around .35 bitcoins after 7 days of mining.   However, here at GMC I'm looking at 30% less.

So I understand wanting to keep people in the pool, discouraging hoppers, and all that I think, but what do you all do about missing out on 30% especially as the difficulties increase?  Or are you thinking that if you hit two blocks closer together that will balance out vs the more steady/larger pool.   Also if that is the case then what do you thinking the increasing difficulty is going to do for the frequency of those closer together blocks?

I dig it here, want to stay, but don't think it's wise to overlook 30% difference in gains, that's why I'm asking.

Comments

  • Hey dreidrage,


    I have similar concerns. Really do like it here, but ever since 8th Jan (plus or minus a day) I have been getting 24 hour payouts that are 20-30% less under the estimated value, even accounting new difficulties etc, still is very very low. 
    I do understand days with bad luck affecting and I can see the flactuations, but even luck playin as a factor if I am lucky then I am 19% down on the estimate and if I am not lucky then I am 35% out of estimate even was one day when I had 39% under wich made me think it could be my setup. 

    In terms of the setup I checked a lot of stuff, even trying switching from EU to US servers (which did help a bit, but not by 30% should I say). This issue has been also discussed on this thread https://forum.give-me-coins.com/discussion/589/hash-rate-fine-ltc-generation-about-30-below-calculated-is-something-wrong-is-this-just-pplns#Item_44

    I am still very interested hearing from other people. So far mentioned experement in that thread is not going to well as far as payout concerned. It is a possibility that some of the issue I have noticed on EU server is some how effecting the payouts.

    (fluctuating difficulty for workers, in short its an on going issue of worker difficulty jumping at random rates not related to block fining or hash rate going down - normal behaviour have been seen on US server when mining less then 10 hours or so, where difficulty would gradually increase and decrease until its stable which in my case is 224) 

    Reading around the topic of VARDIFF and PPLNS it would seem like logical. However I am not an expert miner, and still consider that my setup could be an issue here. 5 day test still brings results of 25-30% below estimated value. Latest improvements to the setup have been implemented by running two separate cgminers on a setup where there is two cards because the cards are hashing at different rates. 

    I will post here and possibly on other thread about the results in the coming days. 
    Its really shame that I can't still narrow it down to what i could be in terms of so low payout over a larger period of time :(

    Any help is very appreciated and if possible could people please let me known if they are also experiencing random fluctuations described above, or is it just me :(

    Kind Regards,
  • You know the more I think about it, the more the current system seems to actually punish pool loyalty for long time rounds.  If I have this straight then the longer you are here you will see your number of shares plateau'ish depending on your hash rate and N (rounds used to determine).  Once you get to the N rounds of being here (ie as the N shifts across the rounds) you peak out then your percentage gains will drop over time as the hitting a block takes longer because let's say the time to get the block is 2N, then you are only getting 1/2 of what might have in the same N time at a luckier/bigger pool.  So it sure seems like the little guys might need to rethink this if we want people to stick around or am I crazy?

  • Fluctuations are normal. In a long enough interval they will tend to 0%.

    What miners need to understand is that it isn't their reward that is lower by 30% or 20%, but the pool as found less 30% blocks of what was expected for the average hashrate.

    PPLNS major asset is the reward for pool loyalty, not the other way around.

    Cheers.
    khaos
  • also, the other thread is more about an issue with the "accounting"  I'm talking more of the fundamental philosophy of the entire thing assuming/hoping that the accounting is correct.

  • The other topic is regarding LTC, but the same thing applies to all coins. Finding a block is a question of luck. Having X hashrate gives you no warranties. But your have a higher chance of finding one.


  • Khaos....hmmmmmmmmmm....  ok so flip it around. hmmmm....



  • If I could, I would make pool find all blocks!  :D

  • Past 24 hours payout pretty good :-)

  • Past 24 hours payout pretty good?  Did we find a block that I missed?

  • 280,942Confirmedxornemisis2014-01-17 12:16:27 AM3,552,173BTC
    280,929Confirmedmikel2014-01-16 10:31:42 PM2,223,636,336BTC


    Block 280,942 and 280,929 were within 2 hours of each other.  
  • What I don't get is I did not even see Mikel in the ranking stats.

  • Nice find Xornemisis ;) 

  • Boom! Excellent pay out - Big thanks to Xornemisis and G-M-C!!!!

  • I actually think payout here is higher than other pools... but it takes forever to get a payout.

    Been mining for the last week or week and a half with no payout (BTC)....

    Is this normal for small pool?
  • Small pool = Long time between blocks = bigger pay out when block is found

    Large pool = Short time between blocks = smaller pay out when block is found

    IMO - Mining is not a week to week thing. You either believe in the future of BTC or you don't. You need to be committed, look at the bigger picture and to the future. There are so many factors a play EG: hash rate, difficulty rate, and of course LUCK! Sometimes you wait a long time, other times we find 2 blocks in 2 hours.... Stay strong and hang in there! Also, remember that you can easily spread your risk by exploring different payout systems, maybe PPS is a better option for you. Do some research and make your own decisions.

    Cheers, 
  • Are we ever gonna solve this block? lol

    I think the luck is already worse than all blocks on the "Block Stats" page.....
    Could a block be unsolvable? 
  • edited February 2014

    OH YEAH I FOUND THE BLOCK!!! :D

  • Awesome!!!!  Has the block been paid out to users? or still waiting for confirmation?

  • well done serraz  :))

  • Has the block been paid? 

    My round estimate went to 0 but no pay out...lol
    Maybe it's still being confirmed... but I thought only 10 is needed...?
  • if you left the pool then you wont no. PPLNS works in rounds so if you leave the pool your reward will drop untill it finally reaches 0. if you were mining full time and the round est suddenly droped and you had a confirmed hashrate etc let me know and we will fix up any issues

  • I left the pool and I did see my round estimate dropping (slowly)...

    but I do not believe it hit 0 before the block was found...

    Could I still get 0 payout? 
  • And it sounds like the block has already been paid?  Thanks serraz!

  • if you are unsure im happy to check for you just let me know

  • yes please... what do information do you need from me? I use the same username for the pool.

    Thanks!!!!
  • edited February 2014

    mind raising a ticket please. i like to keep support things in the same place so its easy to use them as a reference and i can see common issues etc etc.

    cheers

  • Now this current bitcoin block is worse than watching paint dry... My god.. lol


  • edited March 2014

    7 billion shares and no block... o.O (Bitcoin)

  • I know.. right?.. What's up with that?.. 400 hours and no block.. I am not even sure it could pay out all of the shares with one block.. It would have to hit 2 - 3 blocks in a row to pay out the proper shares.. My round estimate is off by about half also..

  • Sadly i think there is a lot of miners who have left pool, when you look at hash rate and miner numbers and i think a lot more will if this round is anything to go on. ( i hope im wrong though)

  • Yep.. I pulled my miners out and just left 60 GHs on this pool to keep my toe in the water.. I am pretty sure that there is no way it can pay out the proper shares unless it hits 2 - 3 blocks in a row real quick..

  • edited March 2014

    If you noticed, the pool went offline twice during this round, and it is almost as if it had to start over from scratch.. Something is definitely not right with this picture.. The pool stats say that I only have 0.36% of the shares, and that is off by half.. big time.. It is like, "Oh geee.. The pool went down just as it hit a block", and when it came back up, there is no block solved.. Guess we have to start over.. Then boom!! It happened again.. I think I will give it until tomorrow and then just cut my losses and leave for good..

  • I noticed that the litecoin pool was lagging and not paying proper shares recently either..

  • I think you could be right, will give it another while before i have a serious rethink

  • Maybe we would have better luck at www.give-me-no-coins.com


  • I have had no luck with bitcoins in this pool, not even a confirmed anything, so far on other pools I have a higher payout and quicker compared to here. eclipsemc and btcguild both have confirmed bitcoin payouts on them.

    No namecoins either, yet on btcguild I have been earning namecoins too.

    probably just stay with this pool for feather, lite and vert coins for now.

  • Even the litecoins do not payout the proper shares on this pool.. I have miners on multiple pools and when you compare them, the other pools produce and payout the proper shares, according to the calculator.. I also watched this pool go from 10 billion shares submitted towards the next bitcoin block, and then it changed and went back to 9 billion shares.. No payout and the round estimate is off by a factor of 3.. Putting your miners on this pool for any coins is turning out to be a joke.. Try ghash.io for awhile instead and see if I am not correct..

    I am just waiting for the news to come out that this pool was skimming shares and down they go..

  • Which if that were the case it would be a clever way of getting peeps to mine for you for free.......I stopped here, somethings not right and it isnt to do with difficulty / luck/ blah blah blah......ive also tried out the other pools and its full steam ahead

  • 10-4.. Glad you are on the right track.. Me too...




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